This month, Geek Native patrons, who are fantastic people, voted for TheNatOne to be featured in the RPG Publisher Spotlight.
Can do! I have been curious about their products for a while, having been one of the better-looking publishers who found their way onto my radar since the lockdown a lifetime ago.
We have managed to land time with Petros Moros, the writer, and we are lucky enough to catch up with Approtis, the artist. I’ll mark Approtis answers with their name first; if blank, it’s Petros.
TheNatOne interview
You know the tradition: start at the start, go back to basics and do introductions. Here we go!
Who are TheNatOne… and isn’t that bad?
TheNatOne is Petros Moros (me!) and Approtis. I write and Approtis provides all the art. TheNatOne, as an entity, is what happens when a collection of homebrew and passion projects is bundled under a name and given a modest art budget.
Isn’t the name synonymous with failure in many RPGs? Why pick it?
Mostly poking fun at myself. I needed a publisher name when I uploaded my first book (RedHack) on DriveThruRPG and there was a very real chance not a single person would download it (despite it being free). So, I named it after the critical failure I was expecting.
It really doesn’t seem like you’ve been a critical failure though – how would you judge your success?
When I first clicked upload on DriveThruRPG, I had absolutely no expectations. On reflection however, I think I’ve had 3 real milestones of success.
- When (some) of my friends actively wanted to play my games, instead of pushing to go back to D&D or another more established system.
- When I reached over 10 downloads, then when I reached over 100, over 1,000, etc. I thought it was going to die at less than 10.
- When I see RedHack pop up as a recommendation or discussion item online and i’m not the one posting about it.
Okay, that’s TheNatOne name, but what on Earth is a RedHack?
There’s a spoiler in the title of this section. RedHack is the RPG from TheNatOne, which, you might argue, launched the publisher. Let’s see if they agree.
What are you best known for, and what would you like to be known for?
RedHack is by far my most popular game by number of downloads. It’s also Pay What You Want, so that definitely helps the download count. Troopers: RedHack has more sales.
Q) I’ve seen RedHack described as a “D&D heartbreaker, ” leading to a two-part question. Can you tell us about RedHack and what’s a “D&D heartbreaker”?
I’ll answer in reverse order.
A D&D Heartbreaker is usually an indie game, that is very similar to D&D, usually with a minor tweak or two. It can be used disparagingly (“ohh, another D&D Heartbreaker, how original”) or lovingly (“this is my D&D Heartbreaker”).
RedHack is my D&D Heartbreaker, ha! But to actually answer the question: RedHack plays very similar to modern D&D (roll high on a d20 for most everything). I like that core mechanic more than any other RPG system I’ve played (and I’ve played a lot and read even more). It also addresses my two core complaints about D&D:
- I hate extreme power scaling. Level 2 or 3 onwards, it’s almost impossible for an average joe to kill you, even with a surprise attack. That’s boring for me. In addition, level 8 onwards the game basically gets unplayable with the huge health pools and dozens of special powers each. Combat takes forever.
- Probably a less popular statement with the D&D crowd, but I dislike classes. It’s funny, but early D&D was better about it in my mind… less classes gives more options; You’re either someone with a sword, a sneaky person, a spellcaster, or a holy person. Add the flavor you want. Nowadays you’re a “Gloom Walker Ranger” or a “Hexblade Warlock”. In the rush to provide more options, the options have become so hyper specific you can’t actually easily build what you want (in my mind). It becomes a conversation of “put 2 level in fighter, 3 levels in artificer, and 1 level in monk to recreate batman”. For context, I started playing D&D with the release of third edition, so it’s not a rose colored glasses.
So, RedHack keeps power scales very low, mostly by keeping health pools very low. Characters don’t get health increases at every level. What you start with is close to what you have at level cap. PCs gets harder to hit and learn more tricks as they level, but there are not completely insignificant threats. There are also no classes. You build your character with skill points, focus areas, and other similar decisions. The goal is to be able to easily build whatever character you want.
Why is RedHack named RedHack?
While RedHack ended up not sharing all too much DNA with it, other than a d20 system, I was very inspired by The Black Hack. Oddly, not the system itself so much as the layout and approach. It might have been done before, but The Black Hack was the first time I saw a condensed rulebook. I grew up with 3rd edition, so three separate rule tomes were the default expectation for me. Even as I branched out to other systems, the designs I saw all had the full sized tome appearance. The Black Hack was the first time it dawned on me that you can present rules that can be read in a single, short sitting (and not lose anything of value). So the title was very much an homage to that, though I did choose to go with WhiteHack’s title approach (no “the”, no space), mostly because my last name isn’t “Red”.
I even wrote to David Black at one point. Very nice guy, though I doubt he remembers me if anyone were to ask, ha.
Now, if you ask me why I specifically went with “Red” for RedHack, that’s a much less interesting answer. I like the color red and it wasn’t taken.
Later, I did find out that RedHack is a chinese hactivist group… but in the TTRPG space, it’s not claimed.
You’ve big RedHack news! Thank you for sharing. RedHack Second Edition (RH2e) is on the way, and I was hoping you give us a teaser of changes.
Thanks! I’m very excited to announce it! It incorporates ideas from the community I liked, with a few new ideas of my own. A big chunk is clarity of language, tricks i’ve learned since releasing 1e. There are currently three big changes which are still in testing (subject to change):
- The feats of first game are being replaced with a more streamlined system called “Drives”. Drives are framed like motivations and give PCs a bonus dice (d4 to d12) to their preferred areas, but are a resource and need to be used wisely.
- The magic system is being completely redone. In short, a spell can be cast at different levels, depending on how well you roll.
- The GM controlled “Reckoning Die”. The GM can choose to use it to empower bad guys. If it succeeds, it empowers a bad guy, if it fails, a PC gets a drive back.
There are also a lot of quality of life changes. I’m hoping to have it out in quarter one of 2024.
How do you describe Troopers? Is it a setting with a TTRPG, skirmish, and dog-fighting game? Do people need to play all three to really get into the world of Troopers?
Yeah, you can tell I don’t know much about marketing, the naming is confusing. Troopers is a combination of brand and setting. The setting itself is military sci-fi. Think Starship Troopers or Aliens. Right now, it consists of three games (and some expansions), All of which can be played standalone, but they do have rules for importing characters.
Troopers: RedHack is the RPG. In essence, it’s a hack of RedHack. It uses the same base engine, but changes items as needed to make it work as a sci-fi game. I consider this the core of the Troopers line. The other games have rules for importing your Troopers: RedHack character.
Troopers: Tactics is a skirmish war game for players who want to play out larger scale battles. It uses a dice pool system.
Troopers: Aces is a dog fighting mini game. The primary gameplay loop is balancing a pool of power, represented by a fixed pool of dice, to your various ship systems (engines, shields, weapons). It does not use a grid or miniatures, relying instead on theater of the mind and positioning roles.
What is the Troopers: All Out War news? Is there new content?
Troopers: All Out War is expected to come out by end of 2024. It bundles all three games, as well as their expansions, into a single package. In addition, Troopers: RedHack will be upgraded to the RH2e engine and Troopers: Tactics will have expanded rules and revisions.
That art, tho… Wow.
Without question, one of the reasons TheNatOne got on this busy RPG blogger’s radar was the impact. It’s a delight to have Approtis in this interview.
The visual style TheNatOne uses is impressive, striking and unique. How much do the games influence the art style, and how much does the art influence the game?
I try to give minimal guidance to Approtis, and let him go crazy. I think the original ask was mostly (fantasy + punk rock). I’m a fan of letting the artist do the art. In this case, I don’t think one influences the other, so much as they help give each other some identity.
Your artistic style is heavily influenced by Simone di Arminio and Mike Mignola. How do you see these influences reflected in your work for TheNatOne?
Approtis: The bold lines, dramatic shadows, and exaggerated proportions that characterize the works of Simone di Arminio and Mike Mignola are evident in my illustrations for TheNatOne. I strive to capture the same sense of power, dynamism, and gritty realism that these artists have mastered. I strive to retain an appealing composition, and make sure that my history in character design and comic art shines through bringing a unique style to the overall piece.
What is your process for creating the detailed fantasy scenes that you’re known for? How do you balance detail with overall composition and visual impact?
Approtis: My process for creating detailed fantasy/scifi scenes involves a combination of meticulous planning and spontaneous creativity. I begin by researching the setting and characters as best as I can from the descriptions Petros provides me, immersing myself in the world of the game. Then, I create a series of rough sketches to explore different compositions and lighting arrangements. Once I have a clear vision for the scene, I send them along to Petros, and once he is happy, I embark on the detailed line art and coloring stage, balancing intricate elements with a cohesive overall composition that draws the viewer’s eye to the most important elements.
You’ve mentioned that Petros typically provides you with a rough premise for the artwork. How does this level of creative freedom impact your approach to the design process?
Approtis: Petros’s open-ended approach to the design process allows me to inject my creativity and artistic intuition into the artwork. I appreciate this trust in my abilities and relish the challenge of transforming his ideas into visually captivating illustrations.
What challenges do you encounter when translating Petros’s ideas into visually compelling and evocative illustrations? How do you overcome these challenges?
Approtis: One challenge I face is ensuring that my interpretations of Petros’s ideas remain faithful to the essence of his original concepts while still incorporating my artistic style and sensibilities. I overcome this challenge by constantly comparing and referencing the older designs, sharing my sketches and ideas with him, and refining the designs through a collaborative process. I want every piece to feel like they all look like they take place in the same world.
What role does colour play in your artwork for TheNatOne? How do you use colour to convey the atmosphere, mood, and themes of the games?
Approtis: Color plays a pivotal role in my artwork for TheNatOne. I use vibrant and contrasting palettes to capture the energy and excitement of fantasy worlds, while also employing subtle hues and muted tones to evoke a sense of mystery or danger. Color is a powerful tool for storytelling, and I use it to guide the viewer’s emotions and immerse them in the atmosphere of the game, be it I the logo, cover, or inside art.
How do you approach the design of characters for TheNatOne’s games? How do you ensure that the characters are visually appealing, memorable, and consistent with the overall aesthetic of the games?
Approtis: My approach to character design is deeply rooted in the game’s setting and the characters’ personalities. I carefully consider their backstories, and motivations, translating these concepts into visual cues such as clothing, hairstyles, and facial expressions. I strive to create characters that are not only visually appealing but also memorable and consistent with the overall aesthetic of the games. (Krim son is by far my favourite design for a cool character.
What are your hopes and aspirations for the future of your art as part of TheNatOne’s projects? What new challenges and opportunities do you foresee?
Approtis I hope to continue evolving my art and contributing to the visual identity of TheNatOne’s projects. I aspire to create artwork that not only enhances the gameplay experience but also inspires players to explore the depths of the games’ worlds and engage with their characters. I foresee new challenges and opportunities arising from technological advancements and the ever-changing landscape of the gaming industry. I am eager to embrace these challenges and utilize new opportunities to expand my artistic horizons and contribute to the growth of TheNatOne.
Trends, tracks and trajectory
I know! No surprises. Just as a typical RPG Publisher Spotlight interview starts at the start it seems impossible for me to talk away without fishing for wisdom, insight and future plans of publishers.
Have you spotted any trends in RPG publishing that interest you, and are TheNatOne part of any?
While I’m not as groggnardy as many in the hobby, I have been playing RPGs weekly for over 20 years now and think we are in a golden age for our hobby. With my economics background, I do worry a little that there is an oversaturation, but in the short term it seems to be driving up quality.
It also leads me to wonder if Wizards of the Coast’s approach is sustainable, long-term. D&D will always be the biggest fish in the pond, but is the pond big enough for the type of fish Wizards wants? What happens if the pond shrinks? As a fan of the brand, I would be thrilled if they sold it.
To answer the original question, I’m part of the trend of self-published game designers having fun just sharing their own ideas.
There was a trend, which I think you were part of, of interesting RPG publishers starting during the lockdown. Having run for a bit now is there anything you would do differently?
It might sound vain, but not really. I’m more than pleased I’ve gotten any attention at all. I have come to the conclusion that no RPG is ever truly done, it’s just released into the wild.
For anyone else looking to start writing an RPG, the only good advice I have is to do just that… Start writing. I have met lots of people who claim to have the next big idea, and they might be right, but a majority of them never get past the brainstorming phase.
TheNatOne
- TheNatOne’s website.
- TheNatOne on DriveThruRPG.
- Petros’ Twitter/X.
- Approtis’ Instagram | Etsy.
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